Author Archive


$3.33 - Week 2


Residency is a two-part journal entry brought to you by one of our favorite creatives.

This week, Celia Hollander, a.k.a. Los Angeles’ $3.33, lets us eavesdrop on a conversation with her friend Matt about recording, performance, and self representation.

Matt Doyle is a musician, performer, sound engineer and multimedia artist living and working in Los Angeles. He is also my good friend, collaborator, and a dance floor clearing DJ. This conversation was recorded on Friday the 13th, February 2015 around 9 p.m. PST.

Matt: Have you ever tried to compose for orchestra?

Celia: No.

Matt: Or for a small ensemble? Anything?

Celia: No. I don’t think I really think in terms of, like, instruments in that way.

Matt: Yeah.

Celia: There was a moment where I was trying to figure out who I wanted to record with at Adam’s, and there was a moment where I was like, “Should I be composing for a small ensemble for this?” And I really thought about it and it’s just not how I approach these types of things. I don’t ever “compose” for piano or for myself, I don’t have that much design and intention. But yeah, there was a second where I was like okay, Matt, Georgia, Rosie and I are going to sit down together and there’s going to be a first movement, a second movement. And I thought about it and I was like, this is insane, and that’s not what I want from this at all. I feel like it would be a waste of time. Like I could do that in MIDI.


Celia: I feel like if I’m going to have the opportunity to work with people, I want to see what the people do and not what I, like, compose for them, and not what I tell them to do.

Matt: Yeah sure. Totally.

Celia: But then I’m going to take all those sounds and use them for my own purposes anyways.

Matt: Yeah. Well I’m really interested.

Celia: Me too.

Matt: Because it’s like, that was my first experience recording in the studio as you know [recording at Adam’s studio].

Celia: That was your first experience recording in the studio!?

Matt: I’ve never recorded in a studio. No.

Celia: Really?

Matt: Never. Never with that kind of, never with an engineer.

Celia: Attention and—

Matt: No, every recording I’ve ever made has been in a garage with one microphone. Like, I’ve never actually had an engineer position microphones to get a certain kind of sound from something, which as you know I was blown away by the quality of the bowed cymbal recording. I’ve always been just—I’ve always been very dismissive of recording. Usually I’ve recorded without the drum kit being miked as, like, one static object, like coming at the microphone from one position. And when you flatten the drum kit like that, you lose half of the reason why drum kits are—

Celia: Each limb has so much articulation.

Matt: Yeah totally. No, it’s really interesting to be able to separate those different channels out and push them in different ways. But, no it’s interesting because like that ensemble, like the three of us playing together, Georgia and I were talking about playing more. But what’s funny is the first thing that came to my mind is always like I want to hear you and Georgia play “Louange à l’Éternité de Jésus,” from Messiaen’s Quartet for The End of Time. It’s just for cello and piano.

Celia: Oh yeah. She talked to me about that.

Matt: And I was like, wouldn’t that be crazy if we played a show and you guys just like played that piece? Maybe it’s just something that I’m really interested in right now because nobody does that.

Celia: Nobody does what?

Matt: Nobody would play, like I’ve never seen a house show where people are playing another person’s piece. Like doing scores by somebody else, you know?

Celia: I mean how many house shows have we gone to anyways?

Matt: Sure. That’s a good point.

Celia: We went to, the only house show that I can remember was at Matt’s house, which was amazing. He texted me by the way saying, “I heard I made you and Doyle cry.” Did you tell him? [LAUGHTER]

Matt: I told him. Well, I told Ella.

Celia: You told him! [LAUGHTER].

Matt: [LAUGHTER] That is really funny.

Celia: It’s really embarrassing.

Matt: It is embarrassing. Sorry. I didn’t think she would tell anybody…

Celia: No, it’s hysterical.

Matt: It is hysterical. It was an effective performance. The further I get, I thought it was incredible.

Celia: It was really good.

Matt: Yeah. [LAUGHTER]

Celia: But yeah, no one’s playing that at house shows because no one’s playing house shows anyways.

Matt: Yeah, that’s a good point.

Celia: At least not here. At least I have no idea about it. Like people have so many alternative art spaces and art garage spaces. But the music scene, either I’m just not apart of it or it’s just not happening like that. But I thought that show was really inspiring too because it was just the best sound. Like the night before we were at Jewel’s.

Matt: Yeah, fucking shit show.

Celia: Like Alex Gray played at Jewels and he also played at his house and at Jewels it was just so busy, so chaotic, such a party, so many people, so much fog machine. And then at his house— that’s how that music should be listened to. Like a quadraphonic speaker system, huge subwoofer, everyone sits down and shuts up and then people can present different things. It’s like—

Matt: Well you can present more challenging work and you can take greater risks, which I think is, like, really, really cool.

Celia: And the audience can actually listen to it. They can actually absorb it and consider it.

Matt: Yeah. No totally. I mean it’s super, super different.

Celia: Yeah. I’ve been thinking a lot about, and this is an old thought for me but it’s, like, resurfaced, that just, like, how special performance is—

Matt: How special performance is?

Celia: Yeah, how right now specifically in a time where you can photograph and video and document everything. Performance is one of the only things that no matter how you try to document it, like it’s not tangible and it’s only going to exist once. And in that way it’s the most valuable thing to me.

Matt: Yeah. I mean it’s incredibly valuable to me for the same reasons. That’s also why I totally eschewed recording for so long. Because I was like, I only want to be a live performing musician.

Celia: Oh yeah. I totally forgot about that.

Matt: Yeah. I had, like, ideological opposition to any sort of recording and I would deliberately not turn a recorder on when I was playing music.

Celia: That’s so interesting.

Matt: “Does the world really need like another band that’s trying to get attention on MySpace?” “No.”

Celia: In a lot of ways I really admire that. Or I’m just starting to understand that right now.

Matt: Yeah.

Celia: I feel like in the last year that I’ve been friends with you I’ve really opened up to the idea of performance and maybe you’ve opened up to the idea of recording.

Matt: Yeah, absolutely.

Celia: I brought you into a recording studio for the first time.

Matt: No, absolutely.

Celia: And you got me to improvise for the first time on stage.

Matt: Yeah. No, absolutely.

Celia: So thank you.

Matt: You’re welcome. No, thank you. You’re welcome.

Celia: I mean maybe, I feel like opening up to performance might be more exciting than opening up to the tedium of recording. But I don’t know.

Matt: But it’s not about tedium it’s about structure and it’s about, like, when you start to reach the limits of how covert you can be because it’s just like at a certain point I realized that—

Celia: Hold that thought, I’m going to cut this lime.

Matt: Okay.

Celia: What do you mean by how covert you can be? This is the first lime from—

Matt: From your lime tree?

Celia: My lime tree.

Matt: Well covert in the sense that like—thank you.

Celia: It’s very sour.

Matt: It’s this thing about publicity and self representation and branding and personal branding and stuff, which I think that you think about a lot more because from looking at even like your older videos.

Celia: I think about it all the time.

Matt: Yeah. You’ve always been like in touch with this stuff about brands and people and the interaction between brands and people. But for me—

Celia: Especially in music. Like people just become their brand.

Matt: I mean your observation in that video about how, like, the idea that an actor performs a multiplicity of different roles and that a rapper actually lives the brand.

Celia: Thanks for actually watching the video.

Matt: Yeah dude, duh. But this idea that, like, you know, there’s this one-to-one correspondence with a rapper as a performer and as a brand and as basically something that’s exchanged in an economy. And I mean just, I lived in Portland and then I lived in Boston with my parents, and I never had to really think about myself as a unit being exchanged in transaction, or at least I was rejecting that as much as possible.

Celia: Yeah. I mean that’s not location-based because like—

Matt: In Portland after I was done with school I really gravitated towards this group called The Creative Music Guild because I was running this freely improvised music night, and they were just totally open to that. I think that freely improvised music to me also represents a break with economics. And it’s weird because, like, Derek Bailey makes a big point about this that so quickly his music and his record label was transformed into, like, a boutique antique, like, people were like, “Oh my god do you have a copy of this record? Do you have a copy of that record? We’ve heard this music.” He’s like, “You guys are talking about this like an antique fair.” While it’s still in process and still happening.

Celia: Yeah.

Matt: I mean this as a scene-specific thing, a city-specific thing. I think that in LA between the way that private spaces function here and just the ethos of the city being so much about visibility and consumption and making yourself a—something to be transacted or consumed is, like, I think that seeing your recording practice has helped me think about ways that you can be both covert and be very methodical in the creation of those objects to be transacted, and let them kind of exist as text and contain things that are more complicated, or things that undermine the very economics. Especially this last album, like undermine the economics that they’re indexing or referring to.

Celia: Yeah. I think—I’m, like, hyperconscious of the transaction factor of it. But in terms of LA that might just also be, like, getting older and meeting more people than, like, when you’re in a school environment there isn’t the pressure to advertise your labor and skills and your services. And I think that, like, everyone right now, everyone you know is working somehow and most people have websites that’s usually a type of self-advertisement in one way or another.

Matt: Yeah absolutely, I do.

Celia: And whether that’s in the realm of fashion or music or anything there’s a transaction involved. I don’t know. I feel like I just get defensive when things get location-specific to LA. I don’t know why. Maybe because I just—

Matt: Well I think it’s because you have a complicated relationship to living here. Or not a complicated, you have a complex relationship to living here.

Celia: I think there are things that are specific to LA, but I don’t feel like that is.

Matt: Well yeah, because I never had to live in a place where this stuff would happen and whenever I would visit New York I would just go to The Stone. That doesn’t exist here. But coming here was the first time—I mean, I still fall on the side of saying that I don’t want to push my creative practice as the thing that wants to make money because it is still very much rooted in an ethos that’s against the economy. But maybe recording and presenting music in that way is a way of like working against and within.

Celia: Against and within. I definitely think of it that way.

Matt: Also recognizing the fact that I am always already within that. You know, that was the other thing, because I always believed that I wasn’t part of it and I was, like, on the “outside.”

Celia: Yeah. You can’t extricate yourself. You can’t extricate yourself if you’re participating in it.

Matt: I might go bring my drums underneath that bridge and test it out.

Celia: Tonight?

Matt: Yeah.

Read Celia’s first entry here.

Monthly Mix

February 2015


Monthly Mixes highlight our favorite tracks of the month in one place.


[00:00] • Diveo – “Summer Trees”
[02:53] • Late Ride – “Swear”
[05:56] • $3.33 – “What are some good hip-hop songs to cruise to”
[07:15] • Wez – “The Mood Changes”
[10:14] • Braids – “Miniskirt”
[14:15] • Phantom Posse ft. Makonnen – “Stranded”
[16:21] • William Starr Busbee – “Girl”
[18:40] • Alice – “Nightmare”
[20:37] • Shakai Mondai – “BadbadBadBAD”
[21:48] • Emily Yacina – “Bruise”

Illustration by Laurent Hrybyk.

Artist Mix



Artist Mixes are an ongoing series of mixtapes curated by some of our favorite musicians.

This week, the Los Angeles-based artist Spazzkid shares a mixtape of songs he uses to keep sane on the road.

via Spazzkid:

Being on the road for weeks at a time can be a fun and exhausting experience. There are times when I feel like breaking down emotionally from all the external pressure I’m always surrounded by. Being an introverted person, it’s easy to feel uncentered and distracted whenever I can’t find alone time, which is almost impossible when you’re always around people. The songs in this mix are some that save me in those times and give me that little boost I need whenever I feel low. Most of them are my friend’s work and some mine, both old and new. You will notice bright, upbeat sounds but also introspective ones. Best listened (and danced) to in a car on an empty freeway.


[00:00] • Shutoku Mukai – “Dandy in Love”
[02:14] • Qrion – “sink”
[05:07] • Owl City – “Fireflies” (SMLE Remix)
[06:51] • Veschell – “Day Two”
[08:02] • Spazzkid – “Lovers” (Harrison Remix)
[09:42] • Spazzkid – “Promise” (Ollygon Remix)
[11:14] • Spazzkid – “Truly” (Tomggg Remix)
[12:56] • Kyary Pamyu Pamyu – “Girigiri Safe”
[15:15] • Tomggg ft. tsvaci – “Butter Sugar Cream” (MAXO Beamix)
[16:47] • ILoveMakonnen – “Tuesday” (Blackbird Blackbird Bootleg)
[18:34] • A.G. Cook – “Beautiful” (Rustie Edit)
[19:51] • Wale – “Lotus Flower Bomb” (Daedelus Remix)
[21:14] • The Postal Service – “Such Great Heights”
[23:47] • Goodnight Cody ft. Spazzkid – “Homerun”
[26:18] • Blink 182 – “Josie”

Watch the official video for Spazzkid’s “Goodbye” here.

Artist Mix

Jackson Scott


Artist Mixes are an ongoing series of mixtapes curated by some of our favorite musicians.

This month, the Asheville-based artist Jackson Scott shares an assortment of his favorite songs.


[00:00] • Honeyslide – “Sickly”
[06:03] • James Ferraro – “Roaches Watch TV”
[07:31] • Liz Phair – “Flower”
[09:33] • John Frusciante – “My Smile Is A Rifle”
[13:24] • Thee Oh Sees – “Corrupted Coffin”
[16:24] • Earl Sweatshirt – “Uncle Al”
[17:17] • The Stone Roses – “Elephant Stone”
[22:07] • The Brian Jonestown Massacre – “Open Heart Surgery”
[26:22] • Massive Attack – “Angel”

Jackson Scott’s forthcoming sophomore album, Sunshine Redux, will be out on April 28th via Bloodmoss Records.


$3.33 - Week 1


Residency is a two-part journal entry brought to you by one of our favorite creatives.

This month, Celia Hollander, a.k.a. Los Angeles’ $3.33, records a conversation about performance with her sister.

Madeline Hollander is an artist working with performance and choreography living in New York. She is also my sister, friend, collaborator, idea spinner, etc. This conversation was recorded around 9PM PST-12AM EST on January 29th, 2015.

Madeline: Hellooooo.

Celia: Hi.
Ok. I think this is going to work.
Um, how are you?

Madeline: Good. How are you doing?

Celia: I’m okay. I’m really tired and… just feel weird.

Madeline: Yeah. Today’s a tired day.

Celia: Yeah.

Madeline: Can you tell me again what you’re planning to do with this?

Celia: This blog asked me to do this thing that they call a “Residency,” which is just like two journal entries in a month. The first post goes up on February 6th, which is your birthday and I don’t know, we never document any conversations we have and I think—I’m more and more interested in conversation in general.

Madeline: I sometimes save our Gchats.

Celia: Yeah. I do favor Gchat in general. We’ve talked about this. But that’s just because I kind of hate talking on the phone. Well, for me talking on the phone is super debilitating. Like I can’t do anything else.

Madeline: Like now.

Celia: Yeah. There’s nothing else I can do. I’m locked into my computer. I’m also—it takes every bit of effort for me to phonetically disentangle what you’re saying and understand it. I don’t understand how people can just drive and cook and do things and talk to people on the phone. It takes my undivided attention to carry out a phone conversation. But that’s my own problem.

So yeah—I am going to edit this heavily. So I don’t know. Feel free to say whatever and I can always edit things out. I don’t really know what I’m going to do.

But I am really curious about your performance and how it went.

Madeline: My performance went well. I felt like we were installing the piece as we were performing it because we didn’t get much time to rehearse in the actual basement of the Sculpture Center until the day before the performance. Before, we were rehearsing in Signal Gallery, so we never had to deal with the long corridors or other artwork or people. And so the space went from completely empty, which was the first 10 minutes of the opening with people trickling in, where we were able to do the entire looping sequences full out—and then as the public opening began it started to get more and more crowded and we had to start counting out loud to each other so that we could all stay in sync and hear each other, and we started calling out cues. So it sounded more like football hikes in a way, we were yelling out “and one” and weird little code words that were associated with the different points of the choreography that would indicate a transition into something else, or if we should wait for someone else to catch up, or if we would switch spots… Over time it just got more and more clogged.

Celia: More and more what?

Madeline: Clogged.

Celia: Clogged.

Madeline: Yeah, as more people filled the corridors we had to start and stop, start and stop, start and stop and maneuver around people maneuvering around the artwork. We decided before, since we were wearing headlamps, that we weren’t going to blind the viewers by making eye contact or saying “excuse me” or “please move out of the way” or anything. We wanted to maneuver through it in the same way you maneuver through a crowd during rush hour. Once you get into the groove of finding your little gaps you can bounce through it.

Screen Shot 2015-02-04 at 8.07.24 PM

Celia: Yeah. That’s my favorite thing to do. Running through a crowd as fast as I can without touching anybody.

Madeline: Yeah. And to be in that zone of knowing that you can keep going faster and that you’re not going to actually hit anyone or anything. You become hyper aware of your audience space.

Celia: Yeah. Agile ninja.

Madeline: Mm-hm. Yeah, that’s a really fun zone to be in. It turns obstacles into interesting games. But in this case you’re in that zone but you’re also performing. The viewers are watching you and also reacting. So if someone thinks you’re too close to them they might jump backwards into a sculpture. But you know that you’re not going to hit them, so there’s this confidence and awareness around the dancers that creates a disruption for the viewers. There was a kid who was following us around. Most of the people would just stand and let us pass, or just step out of the way. But this kid would trail after us and follow us through the hallways. I think she was taking photos. She came up with a little chant that would go along with our rhythm. She kept on repeating a funny chant/mantra that went something like “Magical hands, magical hands, one, two, magical hands,” providing us with this weird accompaniment which made it impossible not to smile. It was really sweet. And then of course there were people photographing her photographing us.

Screen Shot 2015-02-04 at 8.06.18 PM

Celia: And then everyone started chanting “magical hands, magical hands” together.

Madeline: I don’t think anyone else heard it besides the dancers actually. I would love to ask her what she was actually saying sometime. We went from 4:00 to 7:00PM.

Celia: That’s a long—that’s many miles.

Madeline: Yeah. It was really intense and we ended up drenched in sweat and we were all definitely zombies by the end of it. And it made it really hard to interact with people afterwards.

Celia: Yeah. Just like, you just ran an endurance marathon and then people want to chat and hug and say hey and it’s kind of impossible.

Madeline: Yeah. And the movements definitely changed but not as much on the level of getting broken down due to exhaustion but more on the level of running out of space and having to move in a narrower frame than what—

Celia: Than what you anticipated.

Madeline: Yeah. I feel like in the other performances the opposite will happen. We won’t have to be as narrow because there won’t be as many people but this will mean that we can do the choreography more full out the whole time so we’ll reach a point of exhaustion much faster.

Can I ask you what it was like to be inside of Draft and play inside of DRAFT?

Celia: It was—I felt like I was mostly invisible. I only felt visible when you guys were going behind me because everyone’s gaze would follow the dancers, as the primary energy and then the tones followed. I also had my eyes closed most of the time because it was too much for me to be at ground level surrounded by all my friends from college and ex-boyfriends and grandma. It was so confusing. I didn’t realize when you perform you’re usually on a stage or separate from the audience for a very good psychological reason. So to have everyone and people that are really important to me from the past and present just swirling around and really close to me while I’m supposed to play piano for an hour was a very weird thing. So I kept my eyes closed and then eventually went into—you just get into a zone where you plateau and then you can either go for 20 minutes or two hours. I don’t know, part of me wished that I was doing something as physical as going around and around the room because playing piano—it is very physical in some ways but you’re stationed. But I felt like I was creating a different type of swirling energy.

Madeline: You were the only one who was sitting in the entire gallery.

Celia: Yeah. I know. It’s kind of sad. It’s kind of sad but it’s also, of course. I’m the slowest eye-of-the-storm-turtle. Everyone else is doing things and scurrying around and I still haven’t moved. A decade has passed and I’ve aged one year.

Madeline: Yeah. It’s really hard to look at someone in the eye when you’re two feet away from them. It’s so different on a stage and being blinded by a spotlight. That happened a lot in this past performance—it’s just harder to stay inside of the performance when like Willa comes up to me.

Celia: Totally. Yeah. And you’ve practiced with performing. It’s beyond even a reaction to embrace those people that I see when I see them. It’s just, it’s so automatic. It’s really clear that if Stephen is in the room I’m going to say hey, his presence will affect me immediately, I can’t, I have no boundary to shield from that. I want to say hi to my friends, I want to say hi to grandma, I want to acknowledge their presence. So it was weird.

Madeline: In a way it’s almost easier to perform something extremely difficult that forces you to be concentrating so hard that you wouldn’t ever notice the people around you.

Celia: Yeah than something that’s kind of—

Madeline: —and automatic.

Celia: Yeah. I would agree. Well cool. I want to come in April and see it.

Madeline: In April???

Celia: Isn’t that the closing?

Madeline: Yeah.

Celia: So wtf?

Madeline: What about February?

Celia: February is very soon. March or April.

Madeline: Okay…  April.

Celia: Yeah.

Madeline: There’s a sequence in this one that is really different from any of the other sequences I’ve done. I made the TSA pat-down sequence much, much slower.

Celia: Oh cool. You love the pat-down.

Madeline: What?

Celia: You love the pat-down.

Madeline: Yeah. I love the pat-down. So, I got the pat-down on loop and all three of us are doing the pat-down to each other but it’s cut up and re-collaged together in order for us to be in synchrony and move forward at the same time. We went through many, many different versions of this in order to get it to move.

Celia: Have you ever done something where there isn’t a linear thrust to it? Like “we had to do the pat-down but we also had to keep moving.”

Madeline: No, I have never created a static sequence.

Celia: Yeah. Which is funny—

Madeline: They all move.

Celia: Yeah they all… continue. They all either go around the room or they go forward and keep moving, which is funny because when you said the pat-down at first I imagined everyone doing the pat-down to each other just standing there and I was like, “Something’s not right with this…” and I imagined everyone awkwardly walking together like a clump patting each other. How does that work?  Then I’m like “Wait, why do they need to be moving?” “Oh because it’s Madeline.” Even when you scratch your cornea you still have to get on the train and you still have to go. Keep on moving, don’t stop. Even if you’re just going in circles, keep moving, keep moving.

Madeline: Yeah. I believe you have to walk on the moving sidewalks.

Celia: Yeah, I agree with that too.

Madeline: What I was going to say about the pat-down is we went through all these different iterations of it that were really literal and really kind of neurotic and then I realized that every time I tried to look up the actual protocol or the choreography of the pat-down that everyone has to get if they don’t go through the metal detector at the airport, there’s no official record or procedure online because obviously they don’t want people to know exactly where everyone’s going to be looking for security reasons. So there’s a ton of just handheld iPhone videos of people getting the pat down and all of them that I found were all titled something like “Groping My Girlfriend” or someone, or “This Officer Touched My Butt.” Every single video was posted as a point against the pat-down.

Celia: Or like a sexual accusation.

Madeline: Yeah. And some of them that were less enraged would begin saying, “Hi, I’m videotaping this pat-down because I want them to treat my girlfriend with some dignity.” They used it as a—

Celia: Wait were all the videos by men?

Madeline: No, it was both. Some of them were mothers, a lot of them were mothers. The TSA agent will be like, “Excuse me, why are you videotaping this?” And the woman/mom/friend would guffaw and be like, “Because I want you to treat my daughter with some dignity. I want to make sure you treat her with respect and dignity and I have this on camera so that if you fuck up I have proof.” So it’s this weird… the camera becomes this preventative shield.

Celia: Yeah. I was—I have two things to say. First, a woman officer patting your butt to see if you have a gun instead of going through a metal detector, the fact that that can be interpreted as an assault is really funny to me. But the second thing is when I was making all those car videos I was looking for videos on the Internet of people driving, and people driving in LA, and 90% of the videos I found were dudes that had a dash cam for insurance purposes. There are so many videos that are really obsessive that I just couldn’t believe existed—guys would drive for an hour or so, record the whole thing, put it onto video software, and then annotate every part of the video where someone was making some sort of traffic error.

Madeline: Oh my god.

lCelia: And with little captions like, “Everyone’s a fucking idiot,” or “eft turn, time to make a left turn.” Or it’d just be a guy in the car being like, “No one knows how to drive,” “See, that person didn’t signal.” Or insurance scams where someone falsely crashes into the car or a pedestrian walks into the car and claims that the car hit them. But yeah, I was really surprised that people weren’t just uploading car videos for like, the joy of cruising but the majority of them were really, really upset dudes about how everyone sucks at driving or how everyone’s trying to scam their insurance. And the way that they were using the phone wasn’t expressive of a landscape or anything. It was just a shield as a defensive weapon to make sure people wouldn’t fuck with them.

Madeline: Yeah. It changes the tone of viewing the video too. I also thought it was interesting that before they do anything they tell you what they’re going to do. They just say, “I’m going to touch your butt. Now I’m going to use the back of my hand to touch the inside of your thigh. Now I’m going to use the back of my hand…,”  they give you the instructions as they’re doing it. It adds a whole other layer to be considered, can it be groping when you’re given the preparatory speech?

Celia: Yeah.
I’ve never gotten the pat down.

Madeline: Oh you should.

Celia: Why?

Madeline: It’s very nice. I think it’s nice. It feels good. But I also don’t have any problem with people touching my body when they’re telling me exactly what they are doing—or, it would be totally different if they didn’t give the preparatory speech first.

Celia: I don’t have any problem with touch either. I just don’t have a problem with being zapped either.

Madeline: Being what?

Celia: Zapped.

Madeline: Zapped.
Oh. I don’t like being zapped.

Celia: Don’t you kind of like it though?

Madeline: Not at all.

Celia: It’s a weird bath to take before you get on an airplane. I always think of it like the shower—

Madeline: —microwave.

Celia: I always think of it as the shower that you have to take before you get in the pool. Like you have to get doused in toxic waves before you get on an airplane. I just like—

Madeline: Or you just have a massage.

Celia: Yeah.

Madeline: Yeah… I don’t like getting zapped.

Celia: I know.

Madeline: During all of our rehearsals we listened to your “rap album.”

Celia: Really?

Madeline: Yeah.

Celia: That’s such a weird thing to listen to for that.

Madeline: It worked out great.

Celia: Interesting.

Madeline: Yeah I’m excited for you to come.
People still have a hard time understanding that the pieces loop continuously.

Celia: Yeah. Well that’s because if you see something happening you’re going to want to watch the whole thing, no one’s going to just disregard something the first time they see it. Even if—yeah, it loops but if you go into a gallery and there’s a looping video and you know that it loops you want to watch the whole thing. You watch the whole 20 minutes. And then when it starts looping you leave.

Madeline: Yeah. But I guess even in terms of getting there, and the idea of there not being a beginning or an end, or people wondering, “When does it start?” Or “When should I get there?” The “Oh, you can get there any time between this time and this time” is not being fully comprehended yet.

Celia: Yeah. Well there’s nothing else like it. There’s no live looping precedent.

Madeline: No. But I guess with most gallery openings you know that you’re free to get there any time between opening and closing.

Celia: Yeah. Maybe you have to be really explicit about that.

Madeline: Yeah.

Celia: Live loop. I think that’s kind of what I’m going to do tomorrow.

Madeline: What?

Celia: That’s kind of what I’m going to do tomorrow.

Madeline: Cool.

Celia: Play a lot of loops. It’s in the entrance of MOCA so I think a lot of people—most people will be going in and out of the book fair so I kind of just want to play a bunch of loops for half an hour that will be more of an ambient environment than a set. But then I know a few people will come and want to sit and watch the whole set and it’s just not going to be designed for that and I feel kind of bad. I don’t feel bad, but I want people to be free to come and go through it, in the same way you want people to experience your performance. That really resonates about how I feel about this. It would be boring to sit and watch the whole thing, I think.

Madeline: It’s just not designed for that. I mean I like the idea of the performance as a kind of opening credits and closing credits of someone’s experience of the book fair.

Celia: Yeah exactly. It’s more for the people that I don’t know, that aren’t coming for me than it is for anyone who is coming for me, frankly because there will be a lot more people that I don’t know, who don’t know me. That’s my rationale.

Madeline: Mm-hm. I feel like so much of the vision in wanting to create that effect has to do mostly with the context, venue and architecture of the space.

Celia: Yes.
I think I’m more tired than you and it’s later for you.

Madeline: I’m tired.

Celia: What’d you do today? What was the weirdest thing that happened today?

Madeline: Today?

Celia: Yeah.

Madeline: This isn’t very weird but I went to that performance. It was very intimate, it was people sitting around on chairs in this old building and in the middle the dancers presented this piece that was really sequential. It felt like an algorithm that was pretty rigorous and patterned. I watched a dancer who I’ve been working with for a couple years now perform and I watched him for the first time be totally in love with someone as he was performing. And she was also performing. So I watched two people, one who I know very well and the other one who’s a stranger dance together and I could tell that they were in love.

Celia: Are they actually or were you just—?

Madeline: No, he’s dating her and I’ve never—

Celia: You’ve never seen the energy in him.

Madeline: Yeah!

Celia: That’s really cool.

Madeline: He dances differently when he’s next to her!

Celia: Yeah, of course.

Madeline: It’s really cool.

Celia: It’s so cool. It’s real.

Madeline: It’s so real because I’ve seen him dance a lot and I’ve worked with him a lot but I’ve never seen him dance with his girlfriend.

Celia: Yeah, that’s beautiful.

Madeline: It made me look at a whole different part of him.

Celia: It’s like he’s activated, energized, love-agized.

Madeline: It was less about his movement and more about his face. Usually I am just obsessed with his movement and in this performance I couldn’t stop looking at his face.

Celia: Wow.

Madeline: That wasn’t really weird that was just cool.

Celia: Yeah. It could be kind of weird. It’s a new experience.

Madeline: We had to take off our shoes to go into the performance though, which is really weird because it’s winter here and it’s snowing and the ground is disgusting because everyone had just walked in from outside so we all had wet cold dirty snow feet.

Celia: I miss the snow right now so much.

Madeline: No you don’t.

Celia: I do. I really do.

Madeline: What’s the weirdest thing that happened to you?

Celia: I went running in the LA River and in this one part there’s a ton of brush in the middle, it’s marshy, and I heard someone screaming. Just wailing in despair. It’s a horrible thing because I can’t do anything about it without endangering myself and it’s this disembodied horrible sound… If someone is on the street and yelling you can see if they’re yelling because they’ve been shot or something, and you need to call the police. But you can also see if they’re wailing because, I don’t know, they’re having horrible withdrawal and they’re kind of crazy. You just can’t see what the problem is and it’s not safe to just jump in there and it’s an isolated weird landscape. It’s a weird thing to hear. It’s scary.

Madeline: That is scary. I started reading The Sound Of The Horn book. It’s also kind of scary.

Celia: Yeah. That’s so funny, I was thinking about that today because I was like “What am I going to get Madeline for her birthday? Oh well the book fair is coming up so I can get something at the book fair.” Sorry, just letting you know I’m probably getting you something at the book fair. And then I thought, “But I got her that little book and I don’t know if she ever read it.”

Madeline: I’m almost done with it. I really like it. It’s really perfect for right now.

Celia: I got it because of the movie idea about the sound blast.

Madeline: —which I think about constantly.

Celia: Yeah. So I read the book really fast but if I remember correctly there’s a car crash or something and then the sound from the car horn just goes on forever and never stops in the town. The town just adapts to it in different ways. There are—essentially people just camp out around outside and sing along to the horn—they’re called horn singers?

Madeline: Yeah and people would harmonize with it and the bar put a recording of it inside—

Celia: Wait hold on I think Gabe’s here. Hold on.
Yeah. Madeline we’ll have to continue talking another time.

Madeline: Okay.

Celia: Thank you so much.

Madeline: Thank you, love you.

Celia: Love you too.

Madeline: Bye.

Celia: Bye!

Read our reflection of Celia’s new album, I need some good rap music for my car​.​?, here.